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The text for most videos is auto-generated and should not be considered an official record of any proceeding. 00:00:06.895 -- Good morning. 00:00:06.895 -- I call the House Community and Regional Affairs Committee to order today is Tuesday April 21st, and the time is 8.04 AM. 00:00:06.895 -- Members present are Representative Kai Holland, Representative Carolyn Hall, representatives D. 00:00:18.896 -- St. 00:00:18.896 -- Clair, representative Garrett Nelson, co-chair Rebecca Hymshoo, and myself co chair Donna Mears. 00:00:25.896 -- We have a quorum to conduct business. 00:00:25.896 -- As our first committee of the morning, I'll remind folks to silence their cell phones. 00:00:34.448 -- If you need to pass a note to committee members, please get the attention of my aid, Talia Ames. 00:00:38.607 -- Thank you, Tallya. 00:00:39.648 -- And also thanks to Co-Chair Hymn Schutz, Committee aid Thatcher Brower. 00:00:43.048 -- Before we get started, I'd also like to show my appreciation to our recording secretary, Sophia Tenney, and helping us with the Juneau LAO as Chloe Miller. 00:00:52.807 -- On today's agenda, we've got one bill. 00:00:55.968 -- We will be considering the 10 amendments received for House Bill 162 Digital Project. 00:01:01.119 -- Product Repair, sponsored by Representative Dibert, who has joined us in the audience. 00:01:06.060 -- And we look to the will of the committee for this legislation. 00:01:08.739 -- This is the Bill's sixth hearing. 00:01:11.299 -- Representative DeiberT and staff, Ms. 00:01:11.299 -- Salcinski, please welcome to committee, please come up to the table and provide a quick introduction to the bill. 00:01:38.256 -- Good morning, co-chairs and members of the committee. 00:01:43.256 -- And thank you again, once again for hearing House Bill 162, which is digital project repair. 00:01:50.256 -- For the record, vaccine diver, I represent downtown Fairbanks or House District 31. 00:01:56.055 -- I appreciate this time, this morning and the thoughtful consideration. 00:02:00.055 -- This committee has given to this bill to make it the best bill that it can be. 00:02:08.014 -- Before we begin, I'd like to briefly refocus on what the bill does and why it matters for Alaskans. 00:02:17.454 -- At its core, House Bill 162 ensures that Alascans and independent repair providers have access to the same documentation, parts, and tools that manufacturers already provide to their So, this bill is about access, fairness, and making sure our markets are working the way they should. 00:02:43.207 -- Alaskans are some of the most self-reliant people in the country. 00:02:48.207 -- We take pride in maintaining our own homes, our equipment, and our property, but increasingly repair options are limited, increase costs and delays repairs. 00:03:06.951 -- House Bill 162 does not prohibit those authorized networks. 00:03:12.632 -- It simply ensures that Alaskans have a choice. 00:03:16.111 -- At a basic level, this is about ownership. 00:03:19.431 -- When an Alascan purchases a product, they should have fair opportunity to maintain and repair that product. 00:03:30.735 -- Whether they choose to do it themselves, go to a local business down the road, or use an authorized provider. 00:03:37.735 -- In many states, limited repair access is an inconvenience. 00:03:42.735 -- In Alaska, it's a real barrier. 00:03:45.735 -- Because of our geography, authorized repair providers are often hundreds or even thousands of miles away. 00:03:59.391 -- It could be time consuming and sometimes not realistic. 00:04:03.391 -- So people do what Alaskans have always done. 00:04:07.391 -- They fix things themselves or rely on local repair shops. 00:04:13.391 -- Too often they're doing that without the manuals, without tools, or the parts they need. 00:04:25.567 -- gives consumers more options and helps ensure that industries across Alaska, from fishing industries and resource development industries to small businesses, can keep their equipment running without unnecessary delays. 00:04:44.127 -- There are also broader practical impacts when repair is not accessible or affordable, products In Alaska, that means higher costs, families and businesses, and more waste going into our landfills. 00:05:03.127 -- That are already overburdened in many communities. 00:05:08.728 -- I also want to acknowledge the concerns that have been raised. 00:05:12.228 -- We have taken those seriously and the bill reflects our work. 00:05:22.255 -- It does not require manufacturers to disclose trade secrets. 00:05:28.415 -- It is not override anti-theft or privacy protections. 00:05:33.016 -- And it does require manufacturer's to provide parts they no longer produce. 00:05:39.295 -- This bill is about targeting manufacturers. 00:05:43.696 -- It's about ensuring a fair and competitive marketplace. 00:05:47.791 -- When manufacturers choose to provide parts, tools, and documentation to authorize providers, House Bill 162 ensures that independent repair providers and product owners can access those same resources on reasonable terms. 00:06:07.791 -- Ultimately, this is a practical Alaska-focused solution. 00:06:17.487 -- strengthens our small businesses, and reflects realities of living and working in our state. 00:06:25.408 -- I appreciate the committee's continued engagement on this bill, and respectfully ask that House Bill 162 be moved forward to its next committee of referral, where we can continue refining it. 00:06:37.567 -- Thank you very much, Anabasi. 00:06:45.728 -- So, we've got 10 amendments ahead of us that were submitted by the amendment deadline and we'll take them up as they've been numbered in your amendment packet, five from Representative Nelson and five representative St. 00:06:57.648 -- Clair. 00:07:00.887 -- We'll start with Representative Nelson. 00:07:04.208 -- Thank you, Madam Co-chair. 00:07:05.208 -- I move amendment one. 00:07:07.408 -- So numbered T.8, I will- T dot eight, yes. 00:07:12.247 -- I'll object for the purposes of discussion. 00:07:15.247 -- Yeah, so this will just clean up the language in the if this passes as is when it talks about an agreement just simply added or provision. 00:07:22.048 -- So when there is a contract between an owner and the whether it's the manufacturer of the digital product or whether it is business that they bought it from if there's a provision that is In violation of this statute, then the entire agreement would not be avoided. 00:07:46.944 -- It would just be the provision in that particular thing. 00:07:49.584 -- So the entire, whether it's a warranty agreement or an ownership agreement, or anything. 00:07:54.343 -- If there's provision, that would be in violation, and that will be voided, but not the entire agreements. 00:08:01.184 -- So just some clarifying language. 00:08:03.704 -- Thank you and I'll look to the bill sponsor for a comment on the amendment. 00:08:08.591 -- Thank you co-chair mirrors. 00:08:08.591 -- I'm going to pass it to my intern to address the amendment Thank You chair for the record this a mussel chinsky intern 2 representative divert and We are in support of this amendment and the clarifying language that it provides Thank, you're there. 00:08:29.132 -- Is there any further discussion on this? I will remove my objection is there anything further objection? Amendment number one, also number T.8, passes without objection. 00:08:47.144 -- Representative Nelson. 00:08:48.744 -- Move amendment two, or T dot 10. 00:08:52.583 -- Object, please explain. 00:08:54.984 -- Thank you, ma'am. 00:08:56.624 -- This would just, to the exemptions that were already in the bill, this would exempt critical infrastructure as defined Alaskan statute and so I recognize that it might not be there might you know there may not not an owner or like that but I think it's prudent for us to exempt things as defined as critical infrastructure as it has been defined in statute just for security purposes. 00:09:22.327 -- Look to the bill sponsor for a comment on the amendment. 00:09:28.707 -- Thank you co-chair. 00:09:28.707 -- I'll let my intern address that. 00:09:36.159 -- We are in opposition to this amendment because critical infrastructure as defined under the statute is largely not covered by the bill, but manufacturers have used the language within it to justify exempting things like phones and computers and things used in government business. 00:10:02.416 -- Leaving it up to the Attorney General to enforce this would mean a lengthy process that impairs repairs We are not in support of this amendment Thank you sir for their discussion on this Amendment representing Sinclair. 00:10:14.775 -- Thank You Madam chair. 00:10:14.775 -- I support this Amendment critical infrastructure is not just phones and computers and digital repair kind of makes reference to computers, critical infrastructure can be anything from you know a server, a computer server to a transformer pole or the transformer that sits on the pole, or automated equipment and It needs to be exempt because most people don't realize how easy it is to take regular software and extract personal information, critical information etcetera from a computer or a piece of equipment. 00:10:56.080 -- So I would like to see this exemption. 00:10:56.080 -- Thank you. 00:11:00.432 -- Representative Holland. 00:11:01.631 -- Great, thank you for the co-chair. 00:11:04.032 -- I wonder if the maker of the amendment, I suspect you just grabbed the book that I was looking for, might just summarize what's in statute related to critical infrastructure. 00:11:12.032 -- Representative Nelson. 00:11:13.032 -- Yes, ma'am, through the Co-Chair, I apologize. 00:11:14.591 -- I meant to show up with this book and then by the left end of my office. 00:11:17.991 -- So critical infrastructures mean systems and assets, whether physical or virtual, so vital to the state that the incapacity or destruction of would have a debilitating effect on security, state economic security state public health or safety or any combination of those matters. 00:11:33.919 -- Now I once again recognize that like any manufacturer is going to take advantage of any loophole. 00:11:45.320 -- So I recognize app but now we're coming back to kind of the crux of the issue where I'm thinking of gen sets, standalone gen-sets in remote We're talking about iPhones, and so I think that critical infrastructure Is something that can be owned by maybe not necessarily an individual but a private entity and is worth exempting? For those reasons Representative Prox Thank you Through the chair to mr. 00:12:22.336 -- Nelson I can see the point that you wouldn't want this information to utilities out in the public. 00:12:56.144 -- Is that in the contract or is that without, I guess the reason I'm bringing this up, I've worked on the Trans-Alaska pipeline, and this is getting to be quite a while ago, so I don't like 15 years ago. 00:13:25.919 -- And they were virtually impossible to fix out in the field, and they had to call Sweden or Switzerland or someplace. 00:13:25.919 -- I forget to get them fixed. 00:13:40.919 -- And I don't know. 00:13:48.919 -- I dunno if we should require that. 00:13:55.504 -- That information to be available to the people that need to fix it out in the villages and what have you Representative Nelson Yeah, through the chair co-chair to rep rocks In that particular situation, I don't know if this amendment or this bill would have had any material impact on the situation that you gave and so And I'm not aware of what kind of access to software or any of that kind of stuff these contracts would have. 00:14:32.207 -- I just think it's prudent as we have discussed that this would be the most sweeping definition of a digital product that even some things that even Alaska has designed as critical infrastructure and put protections around those, I think will be prudent for us to do the same here. 00:14:54.447 -- Follow-up are just comment. 00:14:54.447 -- I guess I would have to agree that The utilities and the pipeline operators should be big boys and able to do that Within the contract rather than us requiring it because if if it does get out if that information does Get out into the wrong hands. 00:15:13.008 -- It can cause some serious problems Representative hond I think representative should may have it next. 00:15:18.607 -- Okay. 00:15:18.607 -- Thank you I think I just want to follow up on this because I support the amendment, critical infrastructure, particularly as it relates to water, wastewater, power utilities, and we're keeping in mind this bill is looking at the digital systems associated with critical infrastructure. 00:15:36.488 -- So we are not talking about a beam or something. 00:15:36.488 -- We are talking where we using digital system. 00:15:52.912 -- way remotely and across internationally to access our critical infrastructure in this country. 00:15:59.032 -- That's well documented. 00:16:00.032 -- It's a fundamental concern. 00:16:01.967 -- the reach right now of the bill into industrial digital control type technologies and systems because it's so broad opens us up to that area. 00:16:14.008 -- So supporting the amendment because this critical infrastructure exposure has been a problem and I agree with the comments that. 00:16:25.104 -- Allowing the manufacturers to keep some boundaries around that and to through contract with the buyer control How that support is going to be affected and what information is gonna be accessible and just to the general comment And this is Gonna come up. 00:16:40.083 -- I'm probably a couple other times to a certain degree I put a lot of Importance on the by her figuring out if they're buying something that they can prepare and so I'm sensitive to some degree of somebody figuring out that they've got something that all of a sudden requires a factory technician or a part coming from some place, but to me that's part of the due diligence of buying something is thinking about what are you buying, are are going to be able to get what you need to keep it working. 00:17:12.166 -- So, any rate, critical infrastructure I think was a good Perhaps, Ms. 00:17:24.208 -- Selchinski with my question. 00:17:28.248 -- Is there an instance, or has it happened, that by including critical infrastructure, that a manufacturer then said, because Microsoft makes the software governing certain critical infrastructure pipeline utilities, whatever, Declines the right to repair for individuals. 00:17:57.615 -- So my personal, I don't know, Microsoft or software. 00:18:01.615 -- I need some kind of a hardware example, but something where my individual personal equipment can't be repaired because of a blanket manufacturer's statement saying because we service the pipeline and their use of this equipment, let's say they use Apple computers, that Apple would say because critical infrastructure is Exempt therefore you also cannot repair your personal computer Is that is that the your position in in objecting to this amendment? To the chair. 00:18:38.604 -- Yes, that's what we are concerned about and I'd have to get back to you in writing on examples of that happening, but we've heard from our experts at Alaska Environment and the National Public and Just Research Group, Director of Right to Repair Campaign, that that is one of the things that manufacturers have at least tried to do in their experience. 00:19:06.943 -- Follow-up. 00:19:07.943 -- So I'm just gonna toss it out to the committee, maybe to make her the amendment. 00:19:11.503 -- Would it stand up? To conceptually amend it to say to to stay except for personal Equipment, I mean is there a way to make a line between? critical infrastructure, which I think of as More public facing serving Communities and and my own personal device right to me. 00:19:33.160 -- There's a difference there But I don't know if that would I mean, would that be favorable in your mind, at least, if we could make a line there? Professor Leonard Nelson. 00:19:49.056 -- Yes, Madam Co-Chair, my apologies. 00:19:51.056 -- I just about just jumped into conversation there. 00:19:54.056 -- So, through the co-chair, I guess, conceptually anything is possible, right? But there's no, in this bill, there is no differentiation between government to business or business to So, I mean it's as we've discussed a lot, it is purposefully incredibly broad. 00:20:23.215 -- And so if we want to go down that road, then that's what my amendment 3 is for when we get to consumer electronics. 00:20:42.288 -- Giant companies have found loopholes where none actually existed or were intended. 00:20:48.288 -- I think that this definition is clearly laid out. 00:20:54.288 -- It covers critical infrastructure, and I'm sure that it will be taken advantage of, and it'll be taking advantage both by sellers and consumers, just like people always are looking for an edge. 00:21:10.703 -- Mean I'm open entertaining it, but I think that it would Muddy the waters of what this amendment is intended to do and what the statute clearly says Once again as it says as repon was saying Systems and assets physical whether physical or virtual so I they get addresses exactly what we're discussing here on this representative Sinclair. 00:21:35.711 -- Yes, thank you Madam Chair. 00:21:37.711 -- And I'm going to get in the weeds in this. 00:21:40.711 -- We were talking about software and you're talking about Microsoft and your talking about Apple. 00:21:45.711 -- Normally systems are coded differently. 00:21:48.711 -- They may have a GUI that a graphical user interface that gives you a Windows interface, but normally this is all coded in a different language whether it be Oracle, whether be DOS, because computers So, when you ask about the Windows thing, there would probably be an application assigned to Windows and application specifically to interface with this different operating system or this equipment that potentially we as a consumer would not have access to, or, this Exclude such as a dashboard or something like that that wasn't used. 00:22:25.663 -- That's a part of an interface with critical infrastructure that We could say that nope, we're not going to give it to the users because it is specific to a specific piece of infrastructure whether it be monitoring the pipeline whether be monitoring electricity whether It be a monitoring a dam or anything like, that usually that there's code behind it, that it's written in, and there is usually, like I said, a graphical user interface, that the user actually goes in and uses, and that can be proprietary. 00:23:04.496 -- Coach, I have a shoot. 00:23:05.536 -- Thank you. 00:23:06.056 -- I guess that kind of speaks to why I'm concerned. 00:23:08.736 -- So because there are clear distinctions between these systems, and so if the two amendments work in tandem, if both were to be adopted, protecting these critical infrastructure systems. 00:23:30.367 -- And then Amendment 3 would, in theory, clarify that personal electronics and appliances, we can call it the Bosch Amendment, number 3, that that would be what the bill does apply to. 00:23:45.528 -- So it would restoring that. 00:23:47.528 -- OK. 00:23:50.167 -- OK, thanks for the conversation. 00:23:52.559 -- So I take it. 00:23:52.559 -- There's no motion. 00:23:52.559 -- Oh, there's no potential amendment. 00:23:56.559 -- No. 00:23:56.559 -- Okay. 00:23:56.559 -- Uh, further discussion on this amendment? Um, I will maintain my objection on Miss Taney. 00:24:02.559 -- Please call the role. 00:24:07.559 -- Representative St. 00:24:07.559 -- Clair. 00:24:07.559 -- Yes. 00:24:11.559 -- Representative Nelson. 00:24:12.559 -- Yes, Representative Hall. 00:24:15.559 -- No, representative Holland. 00:24:17.559 -- Yes? Yes. 00:24:22.680 -- Co-chair, Hamshoe. 00:24:24.680 -- Yes? Co chair, Mears. 00:24:26.680 -- No. 00:24:27.680 -- Five yays and two nays. 00:24:32.680 -- With a count of five yay's and two names, the amendment is adopted. 00:24:37.680 -- Representative Nelson. 00:24:39.680 -- Thank you, Madam Co Chair. 00:24:41.680 -- I move amendment three. 00:24:43.680 -- I object. 00:24:46.680 -- Can you please explain? Thank you, Madam Co. 00:24:50.640 -- Chair. 00:24:53.380 -- So I think this gets to the crux of the issue that we've been coming up against a lot. 00:24:59.019 -- As we heard testimony earlier in this committee, like the Magnuson Moss Act was brought up, we have heard multiple examples where, as we discussed as well, personal electronics have been brought up as the reason why we need this, e-waste. 00:25:16.784 -- things of that nature and I think that this while there are some states that do have um broader definitions um I I thing that this amendment will once a give give like we can call it the Bosch amendment and it will kind of go carte blanche but it will align us with the vast majority of other states um i think And I absolutely support this in concept, and I would like to echo what Repala said as well, is that I think people need to take some personal responsibility. 00:25:58.016 -- However, when that's not possible, then they should be able to get the help that they need or the parts. 00:26:05.855 -- So I just think that this amendment actually gets to the crux of the issue that we've been discussing I think you'll look to the bill's sponsor for a comment on the amendment. 00:26:22.104 -- So, James, we are not in support of this amendment, we're aiming to keep the focus of the Bill Broad and are willing to. 00:26:32.144 -- continue to refine the bill so that it does not have any untended consequences or harms. 00:26:38.624 -- However, we see a very broad and concrete benefit from keeping the scope of the Bill Broad. 00:26:45.903 -- It would be the broadest right to repair bill in the country. 00:26:51.544 -- However the European Union in recent years passed, sweeping right-to-repair legislation pretty substantial benefits from that. 00:27:00.768 -- And this bill is not even close to as broad as the EU's legislation. 00:27:13.488 -- We would strongly oppose anything that limits the scope of this bill because we're hoping to benefit the maximum number of Alaskans we can. 00:27:26.096 -- Thank you representative home great. 00:27:26.096 -- Thank You. 00:27:26.096 -- Well as the maker of the amendment mentioned this is kind of The crux to the issue today in terms of The bill, you know I in researching the the bills and Providing some options and amendments in the earlier stage of process to me There was a fork in The Road for us to look at this type of legislation one is to fairly narrow boundaries of consumer home application, in which case you don't have to worry about enumerating a lot of other extraneous products like critical infrastructure. 00:28:04.779 -- We just got done. 00:28:04.779 -- Or you have a very broad umbrella for a right to repair, but then you have along enumeration of all the things that are exempted and I take some of the information that the the bill's sponsor provided, you know, gives us some documents with those long lists. 00:28:25.968 -- And there was a fork in the road of either going down the path of limiting this, you now broadly through the consumer home application or going down to the paths of really working on a long list of products and applications The bill presently, from my perspective, isn't kind of in one camp or the other. 00:28:54.359 -- And I think we're at the fork in the road where we are either going to set ourselves up for... Long-term starting to add one new product after another that needs to come in because we've got a few in there I think we'll come up with more over time or We bring this back to what the rest of the country has done which is looking at consumer products electronics I just note that you know I appreciate that this is very broad and I thank the the bill sponsor acknowledges that it is extremely broad I hate the broadest in the Country I heard but yet we're the probably the smallest market in the country, and for us to be trying to expect manufacturers to be able to conform to the kind of requirements here, I think is a challenge. 00:29:38.632 -- So I'm supporting the amendment at this point in time. 00:29:40.951 -- I am not comfortable being in a position of having to do that, but it's where we're at right now. 00:29:45.832 -- So, um, I appreciate the maker of the Amendment for bringing this clarity and bringing us to this fork in road. 00:29:52.632 -- Before I go back to Brett Nelson, is anyone else in the committee got a question or comment? Representative procs Yes Thank you through the chair I Guess to the sponsor of the bill You can just make a comment. 00:30:14.440 -- You don't have to ask a question or do we have something that clarifies The expectation of the manufacturer, I guess where I'm concerned is that prior to all of this digitally controlled stuff that is so complicated, the manufacture wouldn't, well at wholesale to a repair center and they would probably give the manuals to the repair Center but it appears that this section requires them to give the parts to, the owner bypass the authorized repair center at essentially the same wholesale price. 00:31:15.675 -- Is that the expectation? Through the chair that is correct except for where There are businesses to operate on a dealership model in which case they are able to provide those parts on fair and reasonable terms Fall apart pucks Okay, I'll go with my own experience. 00:31:51.039 -- Way, way back, I was the Maytag repairman. 00:31:51.039 -- I worked for a guy who was the maytag. 00:31:56.240 -- And we were an authorized repair company for MayTag. 00:31:56.240 -- We were able to buy parts But the other repair shops in town that were not authorized by Maytag, they essentially had to buy the parts from us from the authorized, we were a dealer as far as parts were concerned, but we didn't have to sell the part to the speed queen authorized repair for a MayTag machine. 00:32:49.200 -- repair shops and then if they if the manufacturers had to do that ultimately they would just Raise the price of their machine And I don't care because I do want to buy this stuff But as a practical matter this has kind of broad implications, so I think I support the bill. 00:33:05.319 -- I Mean the amendment Did you want have a response to that? Yes, through the Chair to Representative Prox, in the example that you mentioned as the authorized dealer, you would have been able to charge reasonable costs rather than providing them at price. 00:33:34.200 -- We oppose this amendment because we are very open to adding to and refining the exemptions and tightening up the language, eliminate a lot of the support we've gotten our largest supporters at Alaska Environment and the public interest research group group are strongly opposed to this amendment and there are industries in Alaska such as the Alaska Mining Association that would no longer benefit from this bill if this amendment were to pass. 00:34:08.260 -- So I would just like to remind the committee that. 00:34:08.260 -- Thank Yes, thank you, um Rep Holland, Thank You Madam co-chair through the chair rep hauling nailed it on that we were at a cross in the road and I Had a laundry list of exemptions and if one felt that was disrespectful and also was ineffective or inefficient So that's how we came up with this to respond to some of the points where Well, one, this clearly would align this bill with what is going on nationwide at this point and things are still being refined and we are a small market and I have talked to businesses who would be directly impacted by this Bill and they would do exactly what you said. 00:35:10.655 -- providing, not gouging customers, but providing good service, and so they service those customers for decades. 00:35:19.175 -- And lastly, with the European Union, when I think that with all due respect that's an oversimplification, I don't think we should be using the EU as an example of right to repair laws when their farmers are in revolt and literally hauling wagons full of turds in frustration because they're being put out of business. 00:35:44.168 -- And so I think that we need to be a business friendly state. 00:35:48.487 -- And I, once again, in closing, I understand the idea behind this and I just think that the actual ramifications have not been fully vetted. 00:36:01.288 -- Thank you, I'll maintain my, can I see one more thing? Yes, thank you. 00:36:04.887 -- Through the co-chair. 00:36:06.800 -- It takes out, this amendment takes out power sports equipment. 00:36:10.199 -- So all those ATVs down in cake and and goon and all over my district, those owners would not be able, under this Amendment would not to be be to repair their own power sports. 00:36:22.639 -- No, well, sorry. 00:36:26.280 -- I'm Nelson. 00:36:27.119 -- Thank you Madam Co-chair. 00:36:30.119 -- It's my understanding that the access that they already have, Um, they would still have this is that the parts, which would be parts and tools and tools would just be defined as software that they wouldn't get that for free. 00:36:48.264 -- And the part's when even the tools, if it was a physical tool, they won't be provided those tools just with shipping. 00:36:56.103 -- Cause that's, that how it's defined in the bill is that I can't remember exactly where it is, but it talks about, um, I don't know like the fair and reasonable. 00:37:05.007 -- I mean, I have other issues with this, but where is it the tool part? Parts yet tools Shall be required or a digital manufacturer The tools required without they will provide a without charge except that if the provider or owner requests a tool in physical form The manufacturer may charge the providers or owners for the reasonable actual cost of producing, preparing and sending the tool. 00:37:36.271 -- So, I mean, I guess that they wouldn't get it for free, but I still am. 00:37:44.371 -- I have not ran into a situation where I haven't been able to fix an ATV or a snow machine. 00:37:52.972 -- That's just me. 00:37:58.172 -- Representative Hunt. 00:37:59.972 -- Thank you to the chair. 00:38:01.824 -- But my understanding of how this amendment is functioning in terms of the removal of section C, which includes the power of sports, is that section C was in essence a carve out one of exemptions that was providing a workaround to the rest of sections A and B, and section and created a way for the rest of the bill's requirements not to have the same effect on dealership models. 00:38:39.608 -- So since we're now moving to in this amendment the consumer electronics and household appliances essentially the bill no longer is addressing the products that were listed in C that we are being exempted because now they don't need to be exempted. 00:39:00.543 -- business models and those products that were being exempted out of the bill so that they don't need the exemption anymore. 00:39:06.704 -- That's the fork and road you were talking about earlier which was either we have a bill that is very broad with a lot of exemptions for different business model for different products or different situations or we a have bill that limits itself to consumer household products in which case we don' t have to have the exemptions processed so that' s the fork-and-a-road rat. 00:39:23.664 -- Any further discussion on this amendment? Ms. 00:39:29.903 -- Olcinski. 00:39:30.903 -- Yes, thank you to the chair. 00:39:34.123 -- Just to address some of the concerns brought up by Representative Nelson, we did include those provisions that Representative Hall had mentioned to respect the dealership business model of businesses and allow them to charge reasonable costs for their provision of parts. 00:39:59.168 -- usage of manufacturers of software that limits the functioning of devices, so for example we heard stories from farmers in Alaska who had to fly someone out and it cost them thousands of dollars just to reset a software code. 00:40:14.447 -- Under the manufacturers would have to provide those software tools to reset those so that they don't have to fly someone out from say Seattle just to reset that and they're able to use those software tool under the amendment they would be able charge for the provision of software those same barriers to repair. 00:40:54.135 -- Thank you. 00:40:55.135 -- Further discussion? Representative Sinclair. 00:40:58.135 -- Thank You Madam Chair to Ms. 00:40:58.135 -- Zolchinsky. 00:41:01.135 -- In this, I know that it talks about proprietary, that trade secrets proprietary. 00:41:08.135 -- And again, we go back to proprietary software and interfaces. 00:41:13.215 -- Would this bill then prohibit based on proprietary software, et cetera, et CeterA preclude doing exactly what you just said? Do they chair to represent the St. 00:41:25.195 -- Clair? They are not required to disclose trade secrets or confidential intellectual property. 00:41:37.295 -- It just requires that they. 00:41:39.231 -- provide the same information that they are already giving out to authorized repair providers. 00:41:44.771 -- So if they're receiving those software tools, it would require them to provide them two independent repair providers and consumers as well. 00:41:52.172 -- Thank you. 00:41:52.731 -- Thank You Ms. 00:41:52.731 -- Solchinsky for their discussion. 00:41:57.952 -- Yeah, through the co-chair, this is Sarah Snow worker, staff to representative Maxine Dibert. 00:42:05.679 -- I just wanted to add that a big part of this bill, when we were considering running it, is I'm from rural Alaska, Repti-Burt's Families from Rural Alaska. 00:42:17.880 -- And I wanted just to add this is why Rural Alaskans were so supportive of the spill and came to us, is exactly the main reason it's before. 00:42:28.704 -- power sports equipment, farm equipment things like that that they need that is a necessary, completely necessary to invite all to their lives. 00:42:34.463 -- Four-wheelers, snow on machines, tractors, they use these things every single day to to provide subsistence foods, put food on the table, get to and from wherever they need to go and I agree with Rep. 00:42:53.519 -- Nelson that they are fairly easy to fix but not everybody has access to that and so it also would help. 00:43:05.679 -- provide a lot of safety when working on that equipment as well when you actually have the right people to talk to that have in manuals and the tools that can get you through the process. 00:43:18.719 -- Everything that we've learned about right to repair is providing a huge safety network for these people who are going to work on these anyways because it is a necessary way to survive out in rural Asco out there. 00:43:31.311 -- We don't have a lot of vehicles Trucks are not a thing. 00:43:37.431 -- So these are what people truly rely on So I just wanted to add that is like the essence of why our office the spill was so important to us was listening to the people from out and our rural communities and So, another reason why we're not supporting this amendment with all due respect is I think that that takes away a huge chunk of our supporters and the heart of why we wanted to run this bill, so I just wanted add that, thank you. 00:44:07.143 -- Thank you, Coach. 00:44:08.143 -- I have a shoot. 00:44:09.143 -- Yeah, I wanted it to add to what Ms. 00:44:09.143 -- Snowburger was just saying and that I think a lot of the modern equipment, when I first started writing quads, they were three And I mean, even I could do some pretty basic repairs on my three-wheeler and then things have become very digital and much more complex. 00:44:31.719 -- And, I just want to add, in the communities I serve, there is no dealer. 00:44:36.360 -- There is not dealer, so I can't support this amendment, thanks. 00:44:44.360 -- Thank you. 00:44:51.599 -- I have to renew my membership in the chronically indecisive. 00:45:21.231 -- Uh, yes. 00:45:23.231 -- Representative Holland. 00:45:34.231 -- No. 00:45:36.231 -- Co-chair, him, shoot. 00:45:36.231 -- No, co-chare, meers. 00:45:39.231 -- No three yeas, four nays. 00:45:43.568 -- And with a vote of three a's and four nays amendment number three also numbered t dot seven is not adopted by the representative Nelson I'm gonna withdraw amendment for If I could actually I'll move them in before object after talking with the department of law Our our concern was that it would provide a double right of action essentially or But that's already covered at first please Arden could you explain it a little bit first? Yes? What this was going to do is basically prevent a private right-of-action if the AG was taking Action on behalf of citizens and so After talking with the Department of Law we had a draft it, but that already cover an under statute so with that I will withdraw them in the form Thank you for a moment. 00:46:38.543 -- So that is not adopted a member number five represented Nelson Okay, I move a minute five to 11 object Representative Nelson so we've already kind of crossed the Rubicon on this and I In talking with my constituents This was the biggest concern was not iPhones or e-waste their biggest concerns were frustrations about not being able to fix motor vehicles which we've talked about in this committee as well and so this amendment even though these are exempted and I recognize the I recognize that as was discussed when this question was asked, that it would open the floodgates of the lobbyists' ire, so that's why it wasn't brought initially, and I don't necessarily want to do that, but I do want point out that this is the biggest frustration that affects their actual everyday lives in the most negative way and so I just want to point that out it's regrettable that we are setting a precedent like this but I also I'm not supported the bill at all and so i'm NOT in support of this amendment so with that I will be withdrawing amendment Concludes representatives Nelson's suite of amendments, so Relax a moment, although I'm sure you still have more to say as we as would go along Now I look to representatives think there. 00:48:43.295 -- I move a amendment number 6 t dot 2 object representatives thing clear the purposes of this is Is basically starting from scratch the It takes out the digital product diagnosis and maintenance Because it forces businesses To do something that they weren't necessarily intending to do and it's actually going to put other small businesses out of business. 00:49:19.552 -- If you've got independent repair, so instead of taking your three-wheeler to the guy in town that fixes three wheelers, you're going fix it yourself and potentially put him out business because they're directly going directly with the manufacturer. 00:49:43.519 -- diesel tuners. 00:49:43.519 -- You can go in and you can tune your diesel to eco, pulling, towing, and extreme. 00:49:54.559 -- I'm not going to say what I did with one on extreme, but that was not... Putting it in extreme mode basically gives all the fuel all their everything gives you more power than you can expect Which is not what was intended by the manufacturer when they made it So allowing some of these tools to just go directly to individuals versus Service providers and the manufacturers can actually destroy the equipment Let's see I talked about that And this bill from the research I've done is the most restrictive right to repair, actually not restrictive, I want to say it's the the most exclusive not inclusive enough than any of the other right to repairs that I have seen. 00:50:43.679 -- And when it comes to motor There aren't a lot of states that have motor vehicles, or this in their in the right to repair legislation. 00:51:01.539 -- Can I look to the bill sponsor for comment? Yes, thank you to The Co-Chair. 00:51:09.440 -- We are not in support of this amendment. 00:51:14.320 -- And just to clarify what the amendment would do. 00:51:23.119 -- My understanding was that it deletes the subsection B of 45.45.800 and leaves A as the sole part of that section. 00:51:52.416 -- to be updated, is that understanding correct? Representative Sinclair? Through the chair, no it's not. 00:52:02.056 -- It says delete section A, a digital product manufacturer shall, as required under the statute, make available to independent service providers. 00:52:10.795 -- It's now within them. 00:52:12.135 -- That's correct. 00:52:13.695 -- Through this chair it is deleting section B. 00:52:16.775 -- It is delete the A but that's just a grammatical. 00:52:20.079 -- correction the effect of it is the intent was that it move all of the line excuse me through the chair on amendment number six if you look at line for page two it's deleting lines two through five that's the substance section the through to the intention was it all have article 12 Which is section A and B. 00:52:45.039 -- That was the intent behind it section 45 dot 45 800 Requiring manufacturers to provide this to private Senate citizens or Owners of digital equipment That's a little chance key the chair to represent at St. 00:53:05.199 -- Clair We're in opposition because that would eliminate the heart of the bill and what We're aiming to do with providing right to repair to independent repair providers and consumers Coach, I'm sure Through the chair rips and say clear to to what you want to. 00:53:22.199 -- Do you would need to make a conceptual amendment here? to Change lines one and two of your amendment. 00:53:30.800 -- I think To get it to you wanted to not not that that would gain my support, but Right now the amendment isn't doing what? You just said? I move conceptual amendment number one. 00:53:46.884 -- Representative St. 00:53:46.884 -- Mayor. 00:53:48.384 -- Two amendment, number six. 00:53:50.623 -- We'd like to change page one, it would basically be line nine through page two, line one? That doesn't do it either To the chair I withdraw that conceptual I would draw that Conceptual amendment Representative Holland thank you to the Chair. 00:54:23.119 -- I'm reluctant to help Support the amendments Because I think to that bill sponsors point if you remove this section you essentially remove you basically Delete the whole bill in its scope If you wanted to do what you're attempting to do, you would be deleting essentially line page one, line eight, through page two, line five. 00:54:54.967 -- But I'm not going to move that conceptual amendment for you, and I wouldn't support it if it happened. 00:55:06.320 -- Okay, through the chair based on comments we're getting right now I'm gonna go ahead and withdraw this amendment because the intent was to Get the bill so I would draw it at this time because it doesn't appear to be enough support for it Representative saying clear and number seven move amendment number 7 tango dot 3 object It deals with parts pairing manufacturers should be allowed to To have specific their products have genuine parts That are paired with what they make and not after market parts And it's like what was said before you kind of it is the boss thing you you look at what you're getting knowing that That your ability to repair or not repair so I support this amendment because, and it's the government getting in the way of private business. 00:56:01.880 -- We shouldn't be telling them what spare parts can and can't use. 00:56:05.880 -- So I report removing this language from the bill. 00:56:14.440 -- I'll look to the Bill sponsor for comment on the amendment. 00:56:17.119 -- At the co-chair, we are not in support of this Amendment. 00:56:25.472 -- verify repairs just to prevent them, it requires consumers to go through authorized repair networks which as we have stated are often inaccessible in Alaska just have even if it is a genuine part like we've heard from farmers with John Deere that they got a genuine part and tried to do the replacement themselves, but because it was digitally serialized, it essentially bricked the functioning of their product. 00:57:03.856 -- because they have to get it reset by the authorized service provider, which is costly and often inaccessible, especially in Alaska. 00:57:14.416 -- And the Federal Trade Commission actually still has a lawsuit pending over more than just that practice against John Deere, but that is part of it. 00:57:27.199 -- they said the provision they were most proud of getting passed within the bill was the banning of parts pairing because of how large of a barrier it writes to repair. 00:57:41.199 -- So we're not in support of this amendment. 00:57:45.199 -- Coach, can I come shoot? I'm going to. 00:57:51.391 -- call this to the co-chair, this is the Keurig amendment because that was what happened to me even though the thing said it worked with Keirig, I put it in the Keyrig and it wouldn't work and I just whatever we can do to prevent that from happening so I'm stuck with this thing that doesn't work in a Keerg that I can't use or could have used but have to buy the disposable things and i think consumers are getting taken to the cleaners so i don't think i'm going to support this one Representative Holland great. 00:58:15.456 -- Thank you. 00:58:15.456 -- This is a problematic amendment for me This has been essentially my life for 40 years is being a part of businesses that design proprietary products and in many cases patented products that then had Protection over all the replacement parts. 00:58:30.416 -- That's the business model is you create a razor and then you sell razor blades. 00:58:37.384 -- You make a coffee maker and you cell pods. 00:58:40.704 -- It's a business model that is protected through our country's constitution that folks can come up with innovative new solutions and protect their ability to sell, what they have invented to do that. 00:58:55.648 -- It is hard for me to, on one hand, I get it that folks get frustrated when they buy a printer for $100 and then they get a little ticked off that they have to go to the store and buy the name brand replacement print cartridges for 50 bucks a set and they wonder is this fair without realizing that could have been asked to pay a fair market value of that printer of and then had access to an open market, but they chose to buy the $100 printer and benefit from that low cost of acquisition in exchange. 00:59:36.992 -- And that's the way the world works in our current proprietary product, innovation-based economy. 00:59:43.952 -- And it's a wonderful economy, it provides the incentive for manufacturers to come up with new amazing things, like a Keurig. 00:59:51.344 -- coffee machine to use that name brand that came up before or printers are familiar with. 00:59:55.744 -- So part of me is struggling with having this language in there because it's essentially taking away a foundation of what So many products and innovations in our economy depend upon as a product being able to invent a company being, able invent a new product and then being able have some control over monetizing the benefit of that product. 01:00:17.688 -- In some cases they do that through controlling the aftermarket supply. 01:00:21.688 -- We made the base product, you're going to have to come to us to buy the replacement product The other concern I have with the section is that for many digital products pairing is a necessary part of configuration as you bring in one section of a digital product it has to be able to talk to another part of the digital product and the configurations unique to each one and the versions of all the components and firmware on there, they've all got to be matched up. 01:00:56.543 -- And if they're not completely 100% aligned, things don't work because you assume that. 01:01:01.983 -- So that pairing is a necessary part. 01:01:04.603 -- Do I think that in some cases manufacturers take that to an extreme? probably happens. 01:01:08.880 -- As we talked about earlier in this hearing, there's cases where folks are going to work the edges of these rules to a large degree. 01:01:15.280 -- But the fact is pairing is a necessary part of the functionality of digital products to be able to make sure that you know that the product you put in is properly configured, matched up to the part And you can't just always drop in something that you think kind of looks the same and think it's going to work the same. 01:01:38.824 -- So at the moment I'm in favor of this amendment. 01:01:38.824 -- The section on parts pairing I think has some good aspects to it in terms of you know I think there is a place to look for making sure consumers are not being abused unnecessarily. 01:01:51.871 -- On the other hand intellectual property replacement part business models and the functionality of digital products that need to be able to have some sort of pairing connection in order to properly be configured needs to exist and this takes away some of those pathways so I'm concerned about the language to begin with and always was Thank you Madam Co-chair. 01:02:20.023 -- I also have been in support of Amendment 7. 01:02:22.744 -- I think that we've talked about it some. 01:02:25.384 -- I have problems even with Section 2B talking about the misleading alerts or warnings that the owner cannot immediately dismiss. 01:02:46.335 -- How is that defined? What is a misleading alert of warning? The machine doesn't know, the computer doesn' know what the problem is necessarily, just knows that something's wrong. 01:02:58.615 -- Some parts pairing is absolutely required. 01:03:01.856 -- And well, I'm going to save that for later. 01:03:05.215 -- But, well no, I will say because I think it was brought up on this. 01:03:08.416 -- The example of the John Deere tractor. 01:03:12.335 -- Now I recognize John deere's going through litigation right now. 01:03:16.047 -- I'll go into more detail later, but the continual insinuation that our John Deere dealer here in the state is abusing customers that frustrates me incredibly frankly. 01:03:33.688 -- They've taken that business in just the last couple of decades from like $11 million to um, gouging customers. 01:03:43.983 -- And so, um I'm just, the, I recognize that there is frustrations from some customers as there will be in any business, but anecdotal, examples of a frustrated John Deere customer who apparently got the John Deir part and I know for a fact that you can get the software reset that from a John deere and it can cost you I think it's 200 bucks a year per machine and you get complete access so I have to push back on that because it has been brought up almost in every hearing and i think is disrespectful to the owners and the Representative Nelson, I think that characterization was a little extreme, but Ms. 01:04:30.304 -- Snowburger. 01:04:30.304 -- Oh, yes. 01:04:30.304 -- Thank you, coach Ramirez for the record Sarah SnowBurger staff to rep diaper I just had another comment of something when we were doing this bill We brought got brought up a lot and I I Think that it has been brought upon this hearing so I apologize for repeating it But it's something that we all have phones and one of the biggest problems with parts pairing that brought up at least when we were talking to a lot of consumers, especially in the state of Alaska, was the fact that you buy this thousand plus dollar phone that we all need every single day, especially this building and the jobs that were doing. 01:05:09.128 -- And when you talked about the messages that There's constantly a problem with phones where you go online to buy a charger, or nowadays if you buy an iPhone, it doesn't even come with the charging block anymore. 01:05:23.943 -- And so you have to go out in Apple, for example, but many phones charge an extraordinary amount for the blocks and the charger themselves. 01:05:39.215 -- Over time it works a few times and then all of a sudden it says does not parts pair You get a big message on your phone that says, does that parts pare with this product or the charging block doesn't work? And so just because that was brought up so many times to our office and I'm not saying Emma did a great job of explaining why there's so many more reasons for this. 01:06:03.440 -- I just wanted to throw one more example that was brought to us many many times because it is an everyday basis and I'm sure it's happened to almost every single one of us in this room is a frustration but I couldn't go without mentioning that since it was brought our office many, many time but there are many examples but thank you for letting me share that. 01:06:27.648 -- Yeah, this is such a fine line to have to make a decision on something like this because I'm kind of, you know, I, the Keurig is the name brand and so I don't support a business model that says you can only use one thing with this one. 01:06:44.367 -- Because I didn't, in that case it was a shared and it wasn't the low-end model, right? So for them to then continue making money off of disposable pods, to me, again, for my communities, we ship, we pay to ship our solid waste south. 01:07:07.384 -- We barge it out of our communities. 01:07:09.224 -- And I'm hoping for a better solution to that someday. 01:07:12.063 -- But in the meantime, every single one of those things, every time you have something go wrong, Trust that the part you bought is going to be able to work even though it says it will Where I live a lot of that stuff goes right into the garbage by the time you pay the postage to send it back so This is tricky stuff really tricky staff, but this business model I think is not good for Alaska and the Inability of people in my region To be to buy something that says that will work have it not work then you're delayed because you have to get a different one. 01:07:52.184 -- You're not going to your money back because you've already tried to use it. 01:07:56.864 -- And then nobody else can use either. 01:07:58.903 -- So now you are throwing it away. 01:08:00.023 -- So I'm not gonna support this amendment. 01:08:04.304 -- Representative St. 01:08:04.304 -- Clair, then Representative Nelson. 01:08:06.583 -- Yes, thank you, Madam Chair. 01:08:08.824 -- And again, when I had conversations with Ms. 01:08:12.463 -- Solinsky and I apologize if I butchered your name. 01:08:17.423 -- thing we talked about additionally was about iPhones and phones. 01:08:21.384 -- Why don't we just make this a phone bill then? When you talk about the Keurig, I understand that I've gotten bad parts that don´t fit. 01:08:30.064 -- Also, I usually go back and try and get another one, or use something to modify it, but then again, I am a little mechanically inclined. 01:08:41.064 -- And Keuroig is a brand name going to, what the, co-chair was talking about, and I've had that same issue. 01:08:48.006 -- I just went and bought a different part or did something else. 01:08:51.006 -- It wasn't overly expensive. 01:08:54.006 -- And the parts pairing is, yes, it's a business model. 01:08:59.006 -- It's how you retain customers, whether we like it or not. 01:09:02.006 -- If you don't like that business bottle, don t do business with them. 01:09:07.006 -- You have that option. 01:09:09.006 -- Consumers can make their feelings known by their feet and their wallet. 01:09:13.662 -- just not buying the stuff. 01:09:15.823 -- So I do support this, I actually do support the amendment because it's mine. 01:09:21.423 -- That works better than last time. 01:09:22.462 -- Represented in Nelson. 01:09:23.582 -- Thank you, Madam Co-Chair. 01:09:23.582 -- Final comment. 01:09:27.344 -- Once again, this entire conversation is revolving around Amendment 3, just as a recap. 01:09:31.904 -- But also, that being said, as it sits here now, with this parts pairing language, If this bill were to go through I'm everyone's familiar with the company Hewlett Packard and I knew those gentlemen and I learned to swim in mr. 01:09:47.408 -- Packards pool and my family for generations Managed their ranches and My cousin still does and they in a garage Which is a national monument built the first color printer and if you bought it there was no opportunity for somebody to Go and make some other little cartridge you had to buy HP parts if this bill went through them protecting their legitimate product for a long time would not be possible so I support amendment 7. 01:10:28.524 -- Is there further discussion? Ms. 01:10:28.524 -- Olcinski. 01:10:28.524 -- Yes, thank you to the co-chair. 01:10:28.524 -- Just to Parts pairing has increasingly been used to monopolize repairs, manufacturers force consumers to go to their authorized repair providers in order to get the parts serialized, which prevents them from installing or replacing parts that they would otherwise be able to do. 01:11:08.095 -- This is one of the sources in my response letter to the committee. 01:11:13.095 -- I'm not sure if any of you have been to read it, but it's estimated that John Deere's practices that monopolized repairs cost farmers, I believe it was $1.4 billion. 01:11:33.872 -- a fraction of that cost and the Federal Trade Commission's lawsuit is still ongoing over these practices that monopolize repairs and force consumers to go through authorized repair networks and pay exorbitant costs. 01:11:46.823 -- It discourages competition and a free and fair marketplace. 01:11:51.724 -- We want our independent repair shops in Alaska and our consumers to have the chance to repair their own products rather than being forced to, say, drive all the way to Anchorage just to get a new phone installed in their iPhone. 01:12:08.112 -- I don't know if y'all could see, but my phone had a little accident. 01:12:12.551 -- It's pretty crushed up and it's, I'm having to wait until I can go to Anchorage to get that repaired. 01:12:24.351 -- And we don t believe that that's repair landscape that is good for Alaskans or good for small businesses. 01:12:30.391 -- So just to reiterate, those are some of the reasons that we oppose this amendment. 01:12:38.095 -- Yes, thank you. 01:12:38.095 -- Just comment, I received a letter from some lobbying organization that was supposed to be this OVIL, and I wrote them a terse letter back. 01:12:50.855 -- Basically complaining that we just didn't have the, or I wanted them to tell me about the authorized dealers. 01:13:07.471 -- And it turned out there were more than I thought there where and they are making an effort to Authorize more dealers that it speaks to the independent dealer part of this I Guess the problem is that we don't have enough independent dealers That are going through the trouble of being certified by the manufacturer And I think if we, my concern is if this is enforced for iPhones as an example, that those products would just disappear from the Alaska market, which, again, frankly, would make me happy, but I don't know that. 01:14:08.496 -- business model but makes a good point that some businesses do make their money off of the getting the right printer cartridges and that's just one of a risk you have to be aware of and so this I think the only viable solution is to quit buying the damn stuff until they come up with a better business model, but this probably is going to backfire If we, yeah, force manufacturers to do something that just might not be possible to do in this small market, so I guess I reluctantly support this amendment. 01:14:56.688 -- Representative Prox, I appreciate your personal commentary, but please keep your language clean for our co-chair I'm just going to take one more bite at the apple here. 01:15:11.460 -- I had a problem with my iPhone. 01:15:13.260 -- I happened to be going Anchorage. 01:15:14.819 -- I got to Anchorage, and I called them ahead and said, I am coming with this problem. 01:15:19.100 -- They said we can't guarantee that we will have the part, but we'll order it when you bring it in. 01:15:23.979 -- And I said well that's not really great either, because this is a however $1,000 phone. 01:15:31.100 -- So I get there, I take it and they don't have a part. 01:15:34.020 -- But they'll ordered it. 01:15:34.992 -- For the next time I come through Anchorage, but they can't guarantee they'll hold on to it in case somebody else needs it, and it's not a part they're gonna have a bunch of in the store. 01:15:42.631 -- So I'm basically stuck with a lemon. 01:15:44.231 -- There's nothing you can do, whereas I am confident my nephew could have gotten in there and probably fixed the thing. 01:15:51.351 -- Had he been able to get the parts? And so, it is the cost of the item, it the costs to the travel to give the items fixed if it something that can travel, It's a lot of stuff, so I suggest these companies change their business model, charge me more for the item, fine, but don't make me keep paying, and keep paying and keeping paying to make the items work. 01:16:17.680 -- And with that, I will maintain my objection. 01:16:17.680 -- Miss Tenney, please call the roll. 01:16:21.520 -- Can I get some closing comments? I apologize. 01:16:25.119 -- to the chair. 01:16:25.119 -- I just wanted to answer there a whole bunch of questions that got thrown in there and comments through the Chair to The Co-Chair parts. 01:16:30.319 -- That's not the issue. 01:16:30.319 -- This would absolutely do nothing for having parts on hand in in Alaska. 01:16:38.000 -- It's just it's the nature of the beast and where we live. 01:16:46.800 -- Uh, I understand frustration with that because I've had that before. 01:16:46.800 -- However, parts pairing I don't think having this legislation in there or not having to parts pair for an iPhone specific item is even within the scope of this this a legislation. 01:17:04.359 -- Additionally, Miss Salchinsky, they spilled your name out for me. 01:17:09.359 -- If you had gotten sent a camera, could you repair it? Could you representative St. 01:17:18.560 -- Clair, no and that's why we support allowing independent repair providers to have the access to those parts and documentation without the serializing the digital components because if someone in Juneau, the repair shop that I took it to, was able to repair that, I'm not able to get that done. 01:17:51.159 -- And it goes back to authorized dealer. 01:17:52.920 -- I looked and there are three iPhone repair places here in Juneau. 01:17:59.319 -- I had two more things. 01:18:08.119 -- We talk about the parts pairing and sending it to the consumer. 01:18:12.159 -- That puts small businesses, as we talked about, out of business. 01:18:18.079 -- would potentially go out of business because all their business is now being done by the consumer. 01:18:24.880 -- So I think ports pairing should be a lot. 01:18:24.880 -- It's a business model. 01:18:24.880 -- If they choose to use it and you don't like it, you can take your business elsewhere. 01:18:33.279 -- Joe, that's all I have now. 01:18:47.039 -- We are against parts pairing because it is anti-consumer, it's anti free market, it' s anti small business. 01:18:54.880 -- It is the case that authorized repair providers will still be preferred reputation for being able to repair those products. 01:19:06.448 -- The issue is that we don't have those authorized repair providers in Alaska. 01:19:10.768 -- We have one for Apple or the only location for apple authorized repairs are in Anchorage. 01:19:17.967 -- So if you're in on the north slope if you're in southeast it could cost you hundreds or thousands of dollars just to get there to get it repaired without the cost of the actual repairs being factored in and the federal trade commission is engaged in several lawsuits right now because parts pairing is anti-competitive and the amount of businesses that are Engaging in it means that there's very few places you can turn when it comes to say smartphones that Allow and have a robust repair landscape We just want to give the option to consumers and to independent repair providers This would actually help support small businesses because in Alaska we have many of these independent repairs shops But they're not able to fill those gaps left by the lack of authorized repairs. 01:20:19.239 -- Parts pairing is not good for consumers, and it is a way to artificially inflate manufacturers' profits that the Federal Trade Commission has opposed. 01:20:34.832 -- There are protections for business models for intellectual property and we believe that those should be in there, but these Artificial monopoly is we don't believe should have the right to exist final word representative sink over word. 01:20:45.152 -- Thank you madam chair You you mentioned the comment not enough authorized dealers in the state of Alaska Don't think this increases the number of authorized dealers. 01:20:57.536 -- We're in Alaska. 01:20:57.536 -- If you want Starbucks on every corner, you know, You've got Seattle. 01:21:06.956 -- I know because I used to live there and I took anyway It's it's the nature of the beast and Don' buy an iPhone. 01:21:17.136 -- Thank you I'll maintain my objection. 01:21:20.456 -- Miss Tenny, please call the role Representative prox Yes Representative St. 01:21:33.328 -- Clair. 01:21:33.328 -- Yes Representative Nelson. 01:21:36.087 -- Yeah, yes Representative Hall. 01:21:38.728 -- No Chair him shoot. 01:21:40.728 -- Oh, no co-chair mirrors. 01:21:43.328 -- no And a vote of four to three Amendment number seven is adopted Representative Sinclair Thank you, madam chair. 01:21:54.047 -- I move amendment eight tango four Okay, what this amendment does is it it goes into the same thing actually it might have been The same think as representative Nelson had with the cost It deletes without charge The business should be able to and I know it Goes on further, but I think without charges should Be taken out of there and you just say flat out, because you're giving the option to the company to give it for free, which they can do anyway. 01:22:30.927 -- Or they can charge for shipping, tech time, finding the information, shipping the information etc. 01:22:40.768 -- So I just, it should be beneficial. 01:22:40.768 -- The business should be able to charge, for the product that they are sending out or the tool. 01:22:55.408 -- Yes, and I'll leave it with that. 01:22:57.847 -- Thank you, I will turn to the bill sponsor for the amendment. 01:23:01.847 -- Yes to co-chair. 01:23:02.807 -- We are not in support of this amendment, the manufacturers are able to provide our two charge costs for the distribution of physical copies, one of the Big issues that this seeks to address is, again, the software tools, which cost nothing to copy and distribute, or like PDF manuals, which again costs nothing, but by allowing them to charge for these repair materials that they're able to reproduce at no cost, allows them to create barriers to repair they could cut They could charge hundreds of dollars for a software tool that is free to reproduce So we are not in support of this amendment This number. 01:24:00.703 -- Um, yes, if I may co-chair mirrors a question to the sponsor of the amendment Can you explain the second part of them amendment the page three line eight? Representative Sinclair When you're ready Oh, it adds a semicolon instead of a it's a technical fix. 01:24:19.680 -- Okay, my apologies. 01:24:19.680 -- I didn't miss the semical Thank you before we get in discussion.I want to note this is The last three amendments and we've got about a half an hour left so if we're thoughtful in our comments and efficient That would be helpful representative Holland great. 01:24:37.880 -- Thank You through the Co-chair, thank you for clarifying the second part. 01:24:46.123 -- I've been sitting here trying to figure out what the difference was, and I could not see the comma for the semicolon, so now my brain feels much better. 01:24:55.644 -- I am supporting the amendment. 01:24:58.363 -- I think one of the discussions that we had before, but I, you know. 01:25:03.231 -- that continue to have concern about is the notion that hosting software is somehow free. 01:25:09.872 -- It's not. 01:25:11.271 -- The time and effort that a company goes through to create a customer portal to curate the material to keep it current, to provide the hosting in some cases if they are trying to protect access to that material to make sure that it's from a qualified owner or someone that should So while I certainly agree with the general notion that the marginal cost of Allowing one download versus the next download is pretty darn small The hosting cost is not insignificant and there is a cost to it There's a benefit to the customer to have access to It and I support the notion That the manufacturer should be able to cover the costs of hosting and providing the software and not just the physical copy? Member Prox. 01:26:02.583 -- Yes, thank you. 01:26:02.583 -- I support the amendment as well because it is very difficult to say what it actually costs. 01:26:10.944 -- It costs 2 million bucks to provide the first copy and the next one costs 10 cents, but they got a bunch, they've got to sell a the two million bucks and just from previous experience I used to purchase factory service manuals and they were expensive three or four hundred bucks the alternative was to purchase was a chilton's manuals. 01:26:43.887 -- And somebody just took the car apart put it back together and and they worked pretty good. 01:26:54.863 -- So you had that choice, and this still could be done, and I think people are, in fact, doing that. 01:27:00.823 -- But to dictate that charge, again, would be problematic to the original copyright holder, really. 01:27:11.984 -- So this, I support this amendment. 01:27:16.384 -- Representative Nelson. 01:27:17.583 -- I thank you, Madam Co-Chair, and this is going to end up being a question for the bill sponsor. 01:27:22.583 -- With this, whether this amendment went through or not, because I mean, it talks about, well, it talked about physical tools and so. 01:27:35.583 -- My question is, software doesn't cost nothing, maybe sending it does. 01:27:45.712 -- significantly more in developing software than John Deere does, although both numbers are significant. 01:27:52.192 -- And so this kind of goes back to like the documentation. 01:28:01.712 -- So if this this went through, so I don't know if this would be, I mean, this is the some of the problems I have with this whole bill, or how do you enforce this? If this when through how would you determine what's a reasonable price? for a piece of software, to rep-proxy's point, if it got developed yesterday, then it's worth a lot more than if it has been sitting for months or years. 01:28:24.256 -- Like, how is this enforceable? Even going, I don't know how it would be enforced, but I dunno if that's a question for you. 01:28:32.536 -- I support the amendment because it is not for nothing, it costs nothing. 01:28:37.975 -- But I just have no idea how this is enforceables. 01:28:42.927 -- Or who defines what's a reasonable cost, as it said multiple times in here? That would be the question for the bill sponsor, I apologize. 01:28:50.927 -- How would we define what a reasonable cost is? Ms. 01:28:54.927 -- Ljenski. 01:28:57.927 -- I can provide some language from other right repair legislation if that's helpful. 01:29:11.344 -- Colorado, for example, fair and reasonable terms and costs means with respect to obtaining documentation and vetted software from where are tools for manufactured to provide services costs and terms that are equivalent to the most favorable costs in terms of the manufacturer offers to an authorized repair provider and cost that is no greater than the manufacturers suggested retail price, including terms equivalent of methods and timeliness of delivery. 01:29:37.935 -- Cost under the section are calculated using net cost incurred accounting for any discounts rebates convenient and timely means of delivery means of enabling fully restored and updated functionality rights of use or other incentives or preferences offered Well, so is it basically a reasonable cost is what? manufacturer did you said I think he said MSRP basically, right I mean is that what it said in there? I thought that through the chair to represent us and could you elaborate MSRP? Manufacturers suggested retail price. 01:30:16.640 -- Okay. 01:30:17.600 -- That was a yes. 01:30:20.079 -- Representative Sinclair. 01:30:22.000 -- Only in closing if. 01:30:25.680 -- In closing. 01:30:26.319 -- Inclosing. 01:30:27.984 -- Thank you Madam Chair. 01:30:27.984 -- Rep. 01:30:27.984 -- Holland hit the nail right on the head and it was a point that I was going to make. 01:30:34.783 -- There is a cost associated with software, with CDs, with development of software and putting a price tag on it is cost recovery. 01:30:43.764 -- Cost recovery is something that we acknowledge here in Alaska with salmon, recovering the costs of the hatcheries, etc. 01:30:49.884 -- It's not free, it can't be free. 01:30:56.224 -- I'm not going to regurgitate the same points as is rep Holland, but there is a cost associated with it. 01:31:03.344 -- The manufacturer now gets to set that charge based on what they do with independent dealers. 01:31:11.104 -- But they're going charge, they need to charge. 01:31:15.344 -- If they didn't charge anything, then they'd go out of business. 01:31:17.663 -- Thank you. 01:31:22.720 -- Wrapped up missile chance game. 01:31:22.720 -- I'll maintain my objection miss Jenny. 01:31:22.720 -- Please call the role Representative Hall no Representative Nelson yes representative Holland. 01:31:33.399 -- Yes Representative Prox Yes Representative St. 01:31:43.199 -- Clair. 01:31:43.199 -- Yeah Go chair him shoot. 01:31:45.359 -- No co-chair mirrors no And with a vote of four yeas and three nays, amendment number eight, also known as T.4, has been adopted. 01:32:01.391 -- We'll do another time check, 25 minutes and two amendments to go, Representative St. 01:32:01.391 -- Clair. 01:32:08.271 -- Thank you Madam Chair. 01:32:08.271 -- I move amendment nine, tango, dot five. 01:32:12.671 -- Object, representative St Clair? It adds it as an exemption and talking to manufacturers and the example that Miss Zilchinsky and I talked about was a four-wheeler breaking down out in the middle of nowhere. 01:32:28.851 -- Again, parts became the issue, but... this does nothing to address parts. 01:32:32.047 -- If it was to stockpile parts, that would be a different story. 01:32:35.167 -- And to the co-chairs comment about the iPhone and needing the part, and then they ordered the part. 01:32:43.807 -- It's inventory and stock is what that deals with, not necessarily pertaining to this. 01:32:47.847 -- As the Co-chair stated with their 3-wheeler, I have an O3 4-Wheeler that the electronics went out on it, and I put a push button to start it. 01:32:59.855 -- Because that the parts were available. 01:32:59.855 -- I just chose not to so This in the definition of power sports Concerned me because actually no, that's not concerned me Just removing power Sports we all We all use them, they do have electronics, you can Google the information, and when it comes to parts, again, they don't stockpile all the parts. 01:33:32.496 -- Normally, a snow go will have a spare belt and a spark plug, you know, the basic things. 01:33:39.615 -- And if you understand the function of a motor, you could usually fix it or bypass it. 01:33:42.576 -- So that's the purpose of this amendment. 01:33:52.944 -- Through the co-chair. 01:33:52.944 -- I do not. 01:33:52.944 -- Thank you very much. 01:33:52.944 -- Just to set the records for you To the bill sponsor do you have a comment on this amendment? Yes, if I may coach your mirrors. 01:34:03.823 -- This is Sarah Snowburger from Dibertz office to them to represent the St. 01:34:07.623 -- Clair. 01:34:07.623 -- I just have a quick question before we respond. 01:34:14.423 -- You said that you're removing the power sports because it doesn't have to do with parts. 01:34:20.024 -- Is that what you said correctly? Through the chair, it actually removed power period. 01:34:28.304 -- It's not just because of the parts. 01:34:28.304 -- The parts was one of the rationales that was given for using power sports when I when I spoke to Miss Zoltinski and I'm looking at you. 01:34:34.783 -- So I get it right. 01:34:39.384 -- That was One of The examples that she brought up parts has nothing to do with this. 01:34:42.703 -- You it still takes a long time to get parts in Alaska. 01:34:48.823 -- The the software to fix it. 01:34:48.823 -- Alaskans are pretty resilient. 01:34:53.423 -- So the the part argument that it's hard to get part. 01:34:56.815 -- doesn't really fit because that's a problem we have now and this bill does absolutely nothing to fix it. 01:35:01.576 -- So the removal of power sports is because it's something that is involved in our day-to-day lives. 01:35:05.655 -- We can fix small businesses repair shops. 01:35:10.576 -- I mean I've had my neighbor bring his lawn mower over to me. 01:35:10.576 -- Hey I can't figure this out. 01:35:16.115 -- I figured it out, got it started for him and sent him on his way so and I would Representative Holland. 01:35:25.904 -- Great. 01:35:25.904 -- Thank you. 01:35:25.904 -- I just I don't support this amendment I Just want to note that I think the way the bill sponsors currently handling power sports Which is to protect the dealer model and the dealerships is appropriate and you know if we're going down the path of a right to repair I Think the Bill speaks to the ability of people to have different Ways of accessing the resources to be able to fix their products, in this case, power sports. 01:35:54.604 -- So to that degree, kind of like the earlier discussion about if we're going to allow fixing anything out of be motor vehicles, well, that's been exempted. 01:36:01.884 -- But I think power sport needs to stay in. 01:36:03.844 -- I hate the way they've handled it in the bill is appropriate for protecting the dealers, for protecting access of this bill's intent is for in terms of consumer access to parts, tools, and repair equipment. 01:36:16.000 -- Thank you representing us and I'm expecting a reference to a three-wheeler. 01:36:21.199 -- Yes, called the Red Dragon. 01:36:21.199 -- Thank You Madam Co-chair. 01:36:21.199 -- I wasn't anticipating that. 01:36:21.199 -- But yeah, it was an amalgam of multiple three wheelers. 01:36:28.800 -- We used to get them free whenever we would buy pivots for irrigation. 01:36:34.239 -- Um, I am going to be in support of this amendment. 01:36:39.439 -- I think we are going down this road now where We bring up these other states as examples and there are litany of exemptions which I tried to avoid and the conversation continues to keep coming back to personal electronics. 01:36:55.079 -- And so this is I guess the first kind of bite at the apple and so I'm going to be in support of this amendment purely on philosophical grounds. 01:37:10.832 -- That there are I just I've not experienced the inability to fix any kind of a power sport and if we are going to be looking at other states other states have exempted them for a variety of reasons and and I honestly don't see how this bill would fix the you know a broken down four-wheeler in the middle of nowhere so we're now going down this path and if this Bill moves forward out of this committee and eventually makes to the floor then I will be coming forward with more amendments along the same lines so A response from the bill's sponsor and then wrap up from Representative St. 01:37:50.319 -- Clair. 01:37:55.319 -- Yeah, fine. 01:37:56.319 -- Really quick. 01:37:57.319 -- And then I'm going to pass it off to Ms. 01:37:57.319 -- Chinsky, again, for the record. 01:38:01.319 -- That's the Sarah Snowburger from Brett Diberts office. 01:38:04.319 -- I would just like to know that. 01:38:07.199 -- In the state of Alaska, I don't believe I haven't checked, but I'm pretty sure in other states you are not allowed to drive like four wheelers, three wheeler's for example on on roads, etc. 01:38:19.399 -- And so if you look at four-wheelers now, they don' t make three-wheels, but four wheels nowadays have an electronic display and that is a lot about this bill. 01:38:29.479 -- And, so, if your talking about safety measures Especially in rural communities where this is your main vehicle if you're dashboard where to go out, you can no longer see how fast you're going, the the gas that you have left in it, there are a lot more of electronic, unfortunately it still you could go and you fix it in the field and you don't need it at that time but if this is your day-to-day mode of transportation and this goes the same for snow machines as well, that electronic Unfortunately, I wish it was, and I missed the old ways that we had. 01:39:02.832 -- I had three wellers too, but that's the kind of part of life that were living in now, in rural communities, or even, you know, out in, like, Matt Sue, I spend a lot of time so I'm performing and using side-by-sides out there. 01:39:24.032 -- It's still hard to get those parts and components so that you can use it. 01:39:29.391 -- when that's the reality of what they build now, so I'd just like to make that comment and then pass it off to Mr. 01:39:37.072 -- Lutsinski, please Yes, add to the cook chair We are in opposition to this amendment Because not only are power sports equipment just, like vital in many areas of Alaska, it would help by allowing them the parts, tools, and documentation to be able to fix these products in a safe and effective manner. 01:39:58.368 -- A lot of people rely on their their fault. 01:40:02.720 -- four wheelers, their ATVs, their snow machines, but as they become more complicated and more modernized, people are still going to try to fix them themselves, but without the schematics and the manuals, it's harder to do that safely in a manner that is effective. 01:40:19.939 -- So we want Alaskans to have the ability to repair those products in safe and effective manner. 01:40:26.064 -- And it does address gaps in the lack of access to our pairs, like we heard from Joe Torma of Greenstar in previous hearings about how his business, which fixes up electronics and things, has suffered from a lack access, to parts manufacturers those who are not in their authorized dealership network. 01:40:55.167 -- And that might not be as widespread of an issue with power sports, but this would still help by expanding access. 01:41:02.608 -- So Nelson, please keep it brief. 01:41:04.247 -- We got one more amendment in the discussion of the bill. 01:41:07.688 -- Thank you, Madam Co-Chair. 01:41:09.967 -- In my experience, I have replaced in my experience the more digital these things become in some ways, almost the easier these particular parts are to replace plugs. 01:41:22.207 -- And I have not experienced being unable to get and replace the display. 01:41:22.207 -- So I mean, for just tossing out anecdotal stories, it's actually becoming easier to replace significant parts, especially when it comes to monitoring. 01:41:38.047 -- So that's it. 01:41:38.047 -- I'm still in support of the minute. 01:41:41.568 -- The same clear. 01:41:41.568 -- Thank you, Madam Chair, and I'll make this real brief in closing. 01:41:41.568 -- The parts, parts parts. 01:41:47.536 -- This has nothing to do, this legislation is when it comes to the availability of parts that is, it really isn't in this legislation. 01:42:03.155 -- Pulling out a display out of a four wheeler is about eight screws and like we fix our own stuff and I'm sure Alaskans do the same way but it all goes back to parts and you gave us one example of a dealer that said that he can't get the parts because he's not authorized to repair. 01:42:23.503 -- Why isn't he an authorized repair? That was a rhetorical question. 01:42:31.583 -- That wasn't necessarily requiring an answer. 01:42:35.344 -- So I asked you to support this amendment. 01:42:41.152 -- electronics recycler. 01:42:41.152 -- Green star, I believe. 01:42:41.152 -- So I will maintain my objection, Ms. 01:42:47.131 -- Tunney from the other role. 01:42:49.952 -- Representative Sinclair. 01:42:49.952 -- Yes. 01:42:52.952 -- Representative Nelson. 01:42:54.952 -- Yes Representative Hall. 01:42:54.952 -- No. 01:42:57.952 -- Representative Holland. 01:42:59.952 -- No Representative Prox. 01:43:02.952 -- Yes Representative Co-Chair Hamshoot. 01:43:06.952 -- No Co Chair Mears. 01:43:08.952 -- No The vote of three to four, amendment number nine is adopted. 01:43:16.655 -- On to our final amendment, representative St. 01:43:16.655 -- Clair. 01:43:19.655 -- Madam co-chair, thank you. 01:43:20.655 -- I will be quick. 01:43:21.775 -- All that I move amendment Number 10, Tango.6. Object. 01:43:26.216 -- And the only thing is this is moving the effective date out five years. 01:43:32.336 -- Thank you, I'll look to the bill sponsor for comment. 01:43:36.192 -- Thank you to the co-chair. 01:43:36.192 -- We are in opposition to this amendment. 01:43:40.192 -- We believe that Alaskans should have the right to repair their products without having to wait four years for that to happen. 01:43:51.192 -- There has been in right-to-repair legislation some of the first ones that were passed. 01:43:56.192 -- There was lead-up time to allow manufacturers the time to adjust. 01:43:59.192 -- However, that has Manufacturers have had to adjust to the EU's regulation for large companies, small companies we don't anticipate will be back to that same degree. 01:44:10.768 -- So we don t believe that that lead up time is necessary and support the 2027 effective date. 01:44:28.304 -- Good afternoon. 01:44:29.144 -- Thank you, co-chair. 01:44:30.703 -- I support the intent of this amendment. 01:44:33.384 -- I think having the effectivity in 2027 is unreasonable for the dealers, for companies doing work in Alaska. 01:44:42.703 -- I'm gonna move conceptual amendment number one to amendment 10 to change the date in line three to 2029. 01:44:57.488 -- change. 01:44:57.488 -- Okay, so conceptual amendment number one to amendment number 10. 01:45:02.847 -- Can you please repeat that date representative Holland? 2029. 01:45:07.328 -- So it would read line three and amendment 10 would be insert 20 29. 01:45:19.007 -- All right, is there a further discussion on amendment number ten? I will actually to the sponsor of the bill do you have a comment on the date change 2029? If it's necessary to gain the support of the committee then and allow manufacturers lead up time to prepare We do support 2029 over 2031 to be certain that we would prefer the 2027. 01:46:01.583 -- It's necessary to the committee Thank you. 01:46:10.543 -- I will withdraw my objection. 01:46:10.543 -- So amendment number 10 is adopted Is there any further objection? Object I think if we're gonna do it, let's do Representing trucks Well, I speak in favor of Amendment 10 as amended I Guess the way I'm thinking about this whole bill is that it's kind of a shot across the bow I am not really sure how far this goes because it is a really complicated problem and I would bet that we're either going to get manufacturers, boycotting Alaska, if you will, or we're going to get lawsuits. 01:47:06.287 -- So, giving this an extra couple years is probably a good idea. 01:47:12.528 -- We might be able to straighten a few things out and make it work better. 01:47:16.967 -- Representative Nelson. 01:47:19.448 -- Thank you, Madam Co-Chair. 01:47:22.047 -- I would like to echo what Rep. 01:47:28.847 -- It is a shot across the bow and I feel conflicted because I opposed the bill and the thing that my constituents want the most in it I know would Destroy it and would destroy the sponsor. 01:47:41.887 -- I mean I recognize that so I'm conflicted about this It Is a Shot Across the Bow? I don't think the ramifications have been Well at least the ones that I've been concerned with have Been adequately addressed And I think at least if it goes through as is that is absolutely what's going to happen is that there will be companies that absolutely will not comply. 01:48:10.155 -- And but giving it a couple more years to work those details out, I think is prudent if we're going to move forward of this because it is a shot across the bow and shots across about are not friendly high fives. 01:48:23.956 -- This is going to cost the state money. 01:48:27.792 -- I think trying to at least move that down the path a little bit. 01:48:27.792 -- This is not kicking the can down the road. 01:48:32.992 -- If it goes through as is, it will be established and there will be a hard date. 01:48:37.072 -- And we're here now. 01:48:37.072 -- So I support the amendment as amended. 01:48:44.992 -- Okay. 01:48:44.992 -- Representative Schuchu, maintain your objection. 01:48:44.992 -- Yep. 01:48:44.992 -- Is Representative St. 01:48:56.815 -- Clair. 01:48:58.555 -- Yes. 01:48:59.555 -- Representative Nelson. 01:49:00.796 -- Yes Representative Hall. 01:49:02.796 -- Representative Holland. 01:49:04.796 -- Yes Coach Harem chute. 01:49:06.796 -- Nope. 01:49:07.796 -- Coach Hairmiers. 01:49:08.796 -- No. 01:49:09.796 -- Four yeas. 01:49:10.796 -- Three nays. 01:49:11.796 -- And with a vote of four yes and three nayes, amendment number ten is adopted and that concludes our amendments. 01:49:23.887 -- We adopted five of the 10 amendments, and there were three that were not offered. 01:49:30.688 -- So with that, the bill is before us. 01:49:40.007 -- Thank you, co-chair mirrors. 01:49:44.127 -- I move HB 162, work order 34-LS0809 backslash T as amended from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note. 01:49:52.944 -- Representing him to shoot you make that motion with the ability of legible to make technical and performing changes I would love for leged legal to take technical in conforming changes. 01:49:58.923 -- Thank you very much Is there any further discussion before we vote on the bill that are prox yes Thank You it where does the Bill goes neck go to next if it leaves this committee? I believe it's labor and commerce. 01:50:16.944 -- That's correct Any further comments? Representative Pollan. 01:50:23.264 -- Yeah, thank you to the chair. 01:50:24.423 -- I'll support the effort to move the bill on. 01:50:27.543 -- I have concerns about the Bill. 01:50:28.863 -- I will note those in my individual recommendations, but I'm happy to recognize that we've done the work we can here in this committee. 01:50:35.184 -- I appreciate the the workers bill sponsors done to work very hard with many of us individually. 01:50:39.184 -- And I don't want to slow down the process for perhaps some additional work in the future. 01:50:47.583 -- Thank you, Representative Nelson. 01:50:48.583 -- I assume you maintain your objection. 01:50:50.511 -- Yeah, I do not want to discount the work that's gone into as well. 01:50:50.511 -- Oh, thank you, madam co-chair I apologize. 01:50:54.511 -- I would just fall into conversation But I also recognize that there's been a lot of hard work done and I Am sad that we don't get to discuss it further frankly, but it is what it isn't this is the process So I will maintain my objection Thank You mr. 01:51:12.671 -- Any please call the roll Representative Colin Yes Then it approaches No Representative St. 01:51:23.456 -- Clair. 01:51:23.456 -- No Oh Representative Hall. 01:51:28.456 -- Yes, co-chair him shoot. 01:51:28.456 -- Yeah, coach here. 01:51:28.456 -- Mears. 01:51:28.456 -- Okay. 01:51:28.456 -- And with a vote of four Ayes and three nays, House Bill 162, Work Order 34 dash LS0809 backslash T, as amended, moves from committee with individual recommendations and attached fiscal note. 01:51:52.055 -- If everyone's please stay behind. 01:51:54.095 -- Thank you all for this work. 01:51:55.296 -- This is, we've had a lot of committee hearings on this and done a lotta work and refinement, so I appreciate everyone. 01:52:04.416 -- getting deep into the amendments and thoughts on this. 01:52:07.815 -- With that, we are concluding our business for today. 01:52:11.975 -- Please remember our amendment deadlines for SB 63, Local Boundary Commission and House Bill 255 seniors. 01:52:18.376 -- Oh. 01:52:23.344 -- I wanted to make a change. 01:52:25.503 -- We will not be hearing a senior citizen, Grant's Dividend Raffle on Thursday. 01:52:30.623 -- So I'm removing that amendment deadline. 01:52:35.264 -- SB 63, Local Boundary Commission Amendment Deadline today at 5 p.m. And on Thursdays, we'll be hear that bill again, SB63, local boundary commission. 01:52:46.463 -- And There is a committee substitute for House Bill 291 municipal property tax exemptions are intent there is to adopt the CS and do work on that bill over the interim. 01:52:59.264 -- And we will be removing House bill 255, senior citizen grants dividend raffle from the schedule. 01:53:04.703 -- Seeing no further business before the committee, this meeting is adjourned, it is 957 AM.